It’s love, not hate

Let us agree that the following five points are true:

1. Christians believe that engaging in sex with a member of the same sex is sinful.

2. Christians believe that righteousness (following commandments) brings happiness.

3. Christians believe that sin brings misery.

4. If you love someone you want them to be happy.

5. If you hate someone you want them to be miserable.

So, how does one justify the claim that Christians hate homosexuals?  Christians with gay children often want them to change.  They support therapy to help individuals overcome unwanted same sex attraction.  They encourage laws that discourage homosexual behavior.  They fight school curriculum that teach homosexuality is equal to heterosexuality.

That is not hate.  It’s love.

They believe that happiness comes from being righteous, and that unhappiness comes from sinning.  So, any time they try to discourage others to ‘sin,’ it is because they want more happiness in their lives.

Whether or not they are right isn’t what is being debated here.  Homosexuals, of course, think that their lifestyle brings them happiness and that changing will not.  So they accuse anyone who disagrees with them of hate.  But where is the logic in claiming that a group that wants them to change is doing it because they hate them?

When has it ever been accepted that anyone who wants you to change hates you?

I have children.  I LOVE them.  I love them so much I can’t even begin to describe how I feel about them.  All I want for them is for them to be happy.

And yet… I limit their screen time.  I make my 6 year old do math and reading worksheets.  I make them bathe at least three times a week.  I don’t let them eat candy instead of dinner.  I don’t let my youngest children play in the woods alone.  I punish my sons when they scream or hurt their siblings.  I make them pick up their room, and I take away toys when they don’t.  I don’t let them do a ton of things that they want to do.  Things that would make them temporarily happy.  Things that they would definitely enjoy doing.  And I make them do other things that they hate doing.  Things that make them absolutely miserable.

And I’m trying to change them.  I’m trying to change them from selfish, irrational, hyper, loud, violent little creatures into young men and women that will speak kindly to everyone around them, think things through, put others before themselves, never lash out in anger and conduct themselves respectfully.

Why?  Because I love them.

They were born selfish.  Does that mean I should celebrate every selfish act they commit?  They were born with the desire to hit when someone makes them angry.  Should I encourage that behavior?  They were born screaming, and spent the next few years screaming every time they wanted something.  Should I teach them that is the natural way to get what they want?

The idea that loving someone means you should encourage and celebrate every choice they make is absurd.  It isn’t that way in any facet of our lives.  Why would I celebrate something I believe will lead someone to unhappiness?  If one of my children came to me and said they were going to live a gay lifestyle, I would be sad.  I would encourage them to try therapy.  I would ask if they were sure.  Because in my experience and exposure, the choice to live a gay lifestyle will not bring long term happiness.  I’ve seen the STD rates among homosexuals.  I’ve seen the divorce rates among homosexuals.  I’ve seen the frequency of substance abuse and sexual addiction among homosexuals.  And I’ve seen the happiness that comes from making different choices.  I would still love them with every ounce of myself, but I would hope they would make a different choice.  Because I want them to be happy. 

Now, in the world, as Christians conduct business and interact with people around them, they have the freedom to live their religious beliefs.  Those beliefs, whether or not you agree with them is irrelevant, usually include the Biblical belief that homosexual behavior is sinful, and that sin leads to unhappiness.  Some Christians, sure, are more ‘accepting’ and ‘loving.’  They would never dream of telling homosexuals that they are sinning.  I don’t understand why.  That seems like a much less loving position to take.  After all, telling someone that sinning is just fine as long as it is natural and makes them feel good, will simply lead to more sin.  And, therefore, more unhappiness.  (There are also people who claim to be Christian who say things like, “God Hates Fags.”  If a ‘Christian’ says something that is completely contradictory to everything in the Bible, can you do actual Christians a favor and not put them in the same category?)  Christians who express the belief that homosexual behavior is a sin are doing so to warn of what they believe are the natural consequences of sin.  If you were unknowingly driving toward a cliff, would you want someone to tell you to turn?  Who loves you more?  The person who says you should change, or the person who cheers you on in your path?

In every instance I’ve seen where people are accused of bigotry and hate, then sued for their intolerance, they have declined to celebrate a union they find sinful.  They have served homosexuals in the past.  They probably have gay friends or family, as I do.  They simply wanted to not be involved in a ceremony that celebrated and encouraged sin, or didn’t want to be a part of encouraging sinful behavior.  Because they hate gay people?  If they hated the gay people, don’t you think they would be celebrating their sinful behavior?  Don’t you think it would make them happy to see them solemnizing a relationship that would bring them misery?  That’s what hate means, after all.  You hate someone, you want them to be miserable.  You are going to encourage them to do something that you think will make them miserable.  If you love them, you would say something like, “I hope you can find someone else, but I just can’t be a part of this celebration.”

Which is what Christians do.  And the ones that fight against children being taught about homosexuality outside of the home are doing it because they love the children and don’t want them presented with sin as a viable, healthy, natural option.  Because they want them to be presented, instead, with choices that will make them happy.

If you love someone, you want them to be happy.

If you hate someone, you want them to be miserable.

Christians discourage homosexual behavior, and try to avoid involvement in any celebration of or encouragement of said behavior.

Christians do not hate homosexuals.


About whyimconservative

I'm a stay-at-home, homeschooling mom with a Biochemistry degree living in Austin. I love my kids, my husband and my country. I want to explain why I'm conservative.

Posted on October 4, 2013, in Homosexual Marriage and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 42 Comments.

  1. Travis Lasseter

    can i post this on my facebook. i would love to hopefully let my family at least read a posting that explains what i have been trying to explain to them all along.

  2. Wow you are back. I missed you especially your blog on evolution. I tried to give your blog to others saying that your blog on evolution was the best one. I could not find your website and so I thought you were gone.

    • It feels nice to be missed 🙂 I took a hiatus after the election. It was just making me miserable. The tipping point has been reached, Obama is destroying the country, what is there to talk about? I’m glad you were able to find me again, I don’t know why my website wouldn’t be showing up. I am SO glad you like my evolution posts. I think they are posts I am most proud of. I think they should be required reading for all high school students. They just never even know that an alternative position exists.

  3. Gays I am convinced are born this way. As Christians we are commanded to hate the sin but to love the sinner and (we are ALL SINNERS). The rate of alcoholism and suicide is much higher in the gay community.

    I once met a gay man who was a self professing christian. His stance was he could not help being gay but since the bible defines it as sin, he chose not to engage in his sexuality and remained celibate.

    Now to add to my rant about sexuality: many christians teach that masturbation is a sin. IT IS NOT! No place in the Bible does it forbid masturbation. I am convinced that Paul’s “thorn in the flesh” was his sexuality and he was able to contain by masturbating. I once tried to see how long I could go without sexual relief as a 20 year old used to getting relief on a daily basis. I went 14 days. During that time I had constant erections and lusted continuously after women.

    The Bible strictly forbids adding to it or taking away from it and yet so many people feel like God made a mistake by not forbidding it so they have to “clean up God’s mistake and add it on their own”. Now the Bible forbids having sex with animals for both men and women, don’t you think that if God would get that graphic about what is sexual sin, don’t you think that he would have spelled out masturbation as a sin if He thought it was?

    • I’m not sure where masturbation comes in relative to my post, but I don’t think you should speak for God. The Bible forbids all sexual relations outside of marriage and tells us to bridle all our passions. In addition to that, masturbation is addictive. I think that is why many Christians teach it is sinful.

      • The Bible FORBIDS US FROM ADDING TO THE WORD OR TAKING AWAY FROM It in both the Old and New Testament. Jesus forbid us “teaching for doctrines the commandments of men”. God specifically stated what was sexual sin in both the old and new Testament. The concept is not mentioned except in the old Testament where it refers to a man’s seed escaping, it does not specify if it was from a nocturnal emission, masturbation or sex with his wife but the admonition is to wash himself, his sheets and his wife if any got on her.

        To then say that masturbation is a sin would mean that we think that God forgot to mention that fact and that we have to clean up behind him. God forbids sex with animals for both men and women, if He was that graphic in explaining what sexual sin was don’t you think that He would have spelled it out in clear language for us to understand?

        Anything else is what we call “proof texting” where we try to twist a scripture to say what it means instead of actually what it means.

    • They are certainly most not born that way. It is a lie they put out to avoid responsibility.

      (1) Thousands of ex homosexuals is proof of not being born that way.
      (2) They are in the schools recruiting our children against our will.
      (3) Identical twins have the same DNA yet while one is homosexual the other is not.
      (4) Children of homosexuals are more likely to be one themselves. If born that way, this would not happen.
      (5) It is biologically impossible. Genes only pass on through human reproduction. Homosexuals do not reproduce so no genes are passed on.

      Most of all no proof out there whatsoever of a homosexual gene.

      • Most of these are accurate, but five does not strand up to scrutiny. Would you say sterility is a biological impossibility because it can not be passed on? Of course not. There is no ‘sterility gene’ either, but it is a very real thing. Genetics is more complicated than that. I hope that helps refine your arguments. There’s nothing worse than having people refuse to believe everything true you say because they find one little mistake.

      • I stand by number #5. Do not fall for the homosexual trap and lie. They know they are not born that way. They are repeating this lie with no proof of being born this way. It is the old Adolf Hitler Nazi theory. Repeat a lie often enough and you will get enough people to believe it.
        By the way homosexuals do not procreate. So no homosexual gene passes on. All offspring are the result of heterosexual mating. Blacks do not produce whites, and whites do not produce blacks just as heterosexuals do not produce homosexuals. It is what it is a chosen behavior.
        Only fools would believe that our Creator would design the reproductive organs to be used for our waste exertion organs.

      • If everything you say is indisputable, then how do two fertile people reproduce and give birth to a sterile son or daughter?

      • The most likely scenario here is a birth defect. Two people who see can give birth to a blind person or two healthy people can give birth to a person with a physical disability. This is known as a birth defect and not some genes making you way.
        Again you need to understand the concept of burden of proof. It is not our responsibility to prove they are not born homosexual but it is the responsibility of homosexuals to prove they are born that way since they are the ones that are making the claim. They do not have one shred of proof so they constantly try to pass the buck or say something about sterile people as if that proves one is born homosexual.

      • Birth defects are genetic. You are claiming that no one can have a genetic trait that isn’t present in their parents. That isn’t true. You can “stand by it”, but it is not true. It’s not debatable or opinion. People pass on traits they do not possess every day. That is fact. I have a biochem degree. I studied genetics in college. I understand your assertion that people are not born gay, but saying that it’s impossible because their parents aren’t gay is not true. As someone who has studied genetics and agrees with your perspective on homosexuality, please trust me when I tell you that you were wrong on your fifth point and and continuing to insist you are right will only make people less likely to listen to anything else you have to say.

      • Okay and yes I greatly respect and admire your biochemistry degree and education. You proved yourself in the evolution blog, the best rebuttal yet against evolution. I still do not see homosexuality as an inborn innate trait because we cannot explain sterile people.
        As a devout Christian and firm believer in creation, being born homosexual is an insult to our Creator. Surely he created the reproductive organs to be used and oriented towards the opposite sex. Only delusional people actually believe that God made our sexual and reproductive organs oriented towards the anus. As they say on ESPN football C’mon man.

      • Hey Conservative:
        I don’t hate the sinner but the sin. I don’t have a bio chem degree but took micro biology and many other science courses as well as having a BA degree with a double major in Behavioral Science and Bible Theology, was a former Baptist minister and went to grad school for Clinical psych.

        There is considerable evidence that some people are born homosexual as well as some people are born schizophrenic, and some sociopaths.

        I agree that I don’t want homosexuals being in my face and wanting me to accept their lifestyle. What they do in private is none of my business. You are going out on a huge scriptural limb by claiming that God did not create them that way. We have had homosexuals all through the Bible beginning in the Old Testament. ( BTW as an aside here,
        God only forbade anal sex to homosexual men, not to hetero couples).

        While we are at it, God never forbade masturbation as many people incorrectly teach since we are on the subject of sexual sin.

        The best explanation I ever got from a gay guy who was a professing Christian is that he was
        admittedly gay and he could not help that but what he could do is not engage in sexuality so as not to sin.

        John Wilde

      • No micro biological evidence whatsoever of there being a homosexual gene. It does not exist and is a lie put out by the homosexuals themselves. As a Christian who believes in creation and that God created us, there is no way he would create and make people homosexual. It makes no design sense at all.
        Think about it. He gives us reproductive organs and then makes people with a non reproductive orientation? Only idiotic homosexuals and their brainwashed liberal followers would fall for the lie that God made the reproductive organs not for reproduction but for anal sex so that we can all get AIDS.
        Biology speaks for itself. The opposite sexes are aligned for each other. AIDS is proof that the penis has no business in the anus. Born this way, I say no way.

      • Hey JN, you are guilty of “if-then” logic which is specious. Aids is not proof that the penis does not belong in an anus. Many hetero couples engage in anal sex and don’t get aids.
        It only says that we should avoid being promiscuous, not that we should not engage in anal sex. God created 3 openings in women that fit a penis nicely. I have even had women tell me that women should not engage in oral sex as well.

        You did not deal with my example of people are born schizophrenic or sociopathic. People are also demon possessed. Your argument just does not stand up to the facts. Your argument is reminiscent of the old East Indian proverb of 10 blind boys describing what an elepphant looked like by touching one part of its body. Some had the trunk, some had the leg and some had the stomach. Of course these are all parts but don’t begin to explain what an elephant looks like, you to see all of the parts and you are trying to avoid looking at all the parts here which always results in incorrect conclusions.

      • Looks like the homosexual indoctrination and intimidation have taken hold here. Looks like you have fallen for the homosexual born this way lie hook line and sinker. As for me I’ll just stick with real biology and the cold hard facts about just how wrong homosexuality is.

      • Hey JN
        I am in no way saying that homosexuality is not wrong and a sin. You still have not explained how people can be born with sociopathy or schizophrenia? Some people are demon possessed since birth according to the Bible and you don’t answer that. I am not brain washed here, I am a former Baptist minister and have a genius IQ and want debating contests. You are reacting emotionally instead of factually. While feelings and emotions are important they should never overshadow facts and logic.

        People are born with all kinds of congenital birth defects, explain how this is due to sin in their lives.

        John Wilder

      • I do not need to prove how people are born sociopaths since I never made the claim. The burden of proof is on the one making the claim. They made the claim of being born that way with no proof.

  4. An interesting post. I can see where you are coming from, that in a context of christian worldview those would be loving things to do. I think the problem really stems in the public sector, where people believe in tons of diffrent gods, or none, or are not sure. not trying to rattle any cages but can you see where a non-religious gay person would not find this very compelling? this is your religion, one of thousands. and everyone thinks that their religion or belief is the right one. I hope one day we can all get along and work something out. I think christians should be able to live their faith without the constant fear of litigation, that is ridiculous. But I also want a world where gay couples can be happy together, and don’t have to jump through tons of legal loops/pay more taxes/live in 50 diffrent americas depending on the state. Hopefully this can come to pass peacefully for everyone, tho current trends would seem to indicate otherwise…

    • I don’t expect gay people to find it particularly compelling. I just want the explanation spelled out that none of the Christian behaviors are hateful. No where else are people accused of hate if they don’t celebrate or work to further every choice someone makes. It’s ridiculous that Christians have been labeled bigoted by every news outlet and liberal politician out there. It simply isn’t logical. I don’t know why homosexuals can’t be happy without forcing others to changes their perspective. I don’t need anyone validating my choices to be happy. And there are a lot of religions out there, but only one that this nation was founded on.

    • However the secular laws against recognizing homosexual relationships are stronger than the religious ones. Handing out marriage licenses to homosexuals is a grave injustice and a stab in the back to people who are single.
      Remember only married people get these tax breaks and benefits. These are denied to people who are single. Not allowing these benefits to people who are single was justified on the basis of procreation. The state was creating incentives to promote responsible procreation. Thus the reason why these benefits were given to married people not available to singles.
      Recognition of male/female marriage benefits us all. The offspring pay the future entitlements and provide the future workers. This makes sense. However recognizing homosexual relationships benefits no one at all. How do singles benefit? How is right to tell singles that they are not entitled to the tax breaks and benefits due to unable to procreate and yet homosexuals get procreation benefits even though they do not procreate.

  5. There is no greater love out there than love of parents for children. What decent parent wants their child to become homosexual? It is sinful and leads to damnation. It is unhealthy and leads to shorter life and higher rate of sickness and disease. So of course a loving parent would point out the error of a siblings ways in pursing homosexuality. He/She would be motivated by love and not hate in trying to correct their child.

    The real danger here is homosexuals on the prowl looking to devour your child in the public school system. They know that it is in the public schools where your child is the most vulnerable. He/She is out of your protective care and ripe for conversion. Thus they want access to your child in the school system.
    Vigilance is required here as parents need to guard their children and protect them. Raising them correctly in a Christian way stops homosexual conversion.

  6. Hey JN

    You are looking for microbiological evidence because that is your discipline. I am not suggesting that there is any gene for homosexuality. That does not preclude predisposition.
    Some people are born aggressive and some are born timid, some are born leaders and some are born followers and I suggest that you won’t find any gene to explain these characteristics either. You are practicing “tunnel vision” here. If you are driving a car, that can get you killed and it is never a good idea to use only “tunnel vision” but to look at the big picture as indicated in my previous elephant analogy.

    • Again following your logic then all laws against rape, murder, theft, etc. are now wrong as the person just claims he/she was born this way. By the way I was born nude so can I go clothes free.

  7. I see you portraying to the world that you hate the sinner as well as the sin, which Jesus forbids. What did he say to the women taken in adultery which was a death penalty offense at that time?

    • Yes I hate the sin. Loving the sinner does not mean condoning and approving the sin. By the way Jesus said to sin no more.

      • HEY JN
        Not asking you to condone the sin, but you sure as hell come off in your tone like you hate the sinner whether it is intentional or not. I am in no way gay but that is what it sounds like to me with your rhetoric. And you still have not answered my questions?

      • I think we all agree here, so I would encourage us to avoid contention. It doesn’t do anything to further the cause we are working for (to stop the teaching of homosexuality in schools and the persecution of religious individuals punished for not supporting gay marriage). Accusations that someone is ‘buying into the gay lies’ are just wrong. We agree that homosexuality is wrong. Why accuse each other of anything?
        I would encourage you to read this:
        I don’t think anyone should unilaterally declare that everyone who claims to have natural homosexual feelings is lying. Many of them accuse us of hate and bigotry when we explain our feelings. Let’s not do the same and accuse them of lying any time they explain their perspective. I think many people do choose to be gay. But I think it makes perfect sense that some would be born with those feelings. We all have natural inclinations that would lead us to sin. Our challenge is to overcome these temptations. It makes no sense that people would be born with a predisposition to lie, steal, cheat, commit adultery and commit every other sin out there, yet no one would be born with the natural inclination to commit homosexual acts. You ask why God would make someone with those feelings? Why does he make people with any desire to sin at all? We know He does. So why not this one sin?
        Claiming that someone HAS to have a gene to feel or act a certain way isn’t true. And the absence of a gene is not proof positive that a trait does not exist.

        And, I’m not a therapist, but the level and intensity with which you defend masturbation just makes me think of denial. My blog and other posters have not mentioned masturbation, but you keep bringing it up at every turn and proclaiming loudly and clearly that it isn’t wrong. God forbids ALL sexual acts outside of marriage. That’s not twisting words. If you don’t consider masturbation a sexual act, more power to you. Interpret “uncleanliness, lasciviousness, perversions, fornications” the way you want. The fact is, many Christians think those words describe masturbation as well as other sexual sins. But there is no reason to try to convert others to your viewpoint. I read the Bible and it says that sex is for a married man and woman. Any sexual acts that doesn’t occur between a married husband and wife are sinful. Masturbation IS addictive, which most therapists know. So why would you encourage an addictive behavior? I personally want my children to grow up free from all addictions, sexual or otherwise. I’m revolted that groups like planned parenthood teach children as young as 6 that masturbation is normal and healthy. You’re welcome to think it is, but I don’t think ANY addictive behavior is healthy. My blog isn’t the place to describe various forms of sex. I want my opinions accessible to everyone, and I’m afraid that these comments are becoming inappropriate for children and teens.

        So, please let’s be nice, and stick to the topic, and work together to accomplish our goals.

  8. I get it. I was raised Catholic, I get why people believe that homosexuality is a sin. But there are religions that say a female not being circumcised is a sin. I’d be pretty angry if they passed laws saying that because their religion commanded it, I’d have to be mutilated. I could understand if they had a rule against me not participating in their marriage, but their beliefs shouldn’t be forced on me. This is the same thing. I understand why forcing churches to perform marriages that go against their beliefs is wrong. But forcing homosexuals to abide by your religious beliefs when they aren’t theirs is wrong too.

    It’s God’s place to judge, no one else’s. People interpret the Bible and say they understand His word, which is fine. But because I see it a differently, I should not be bound by your rules. You have the right to freedom of religion. But your rights end where mine begin. You are not allowed to impose your beliefs upon me.

    You say “I’ve seen the STD rates among homosexuals. I’ve seen the divorce rates among homosexuals. I’ve seen the frequency of substance abuse and sexual addiction among homosexuals.” But maybe the STD rates wouldn’t be so high if people would educate their children instead of pretending that homosexuality doesn’t exist. Maybe divorce rates in general are just high (After all, Brittney Spears’ heterosexual marriage ended after 55 hours). Maybe substance abuse wouldn’t be so high if gay people were not often rejected and usually left with less than savory places to turn to for help (After all, there aren’t too many Christian parents who subscribe to your definition of ‘loving’ that allow their outed homosexual children to stay at home). And maybe the so-called sexual addiction can be attributed to sexuality in general becoming more and more prominent in social media (For instance, the studies I’m sure you have to back up your claims do mention the average percent of homosexual sex addicts in comparison to the average amount of sex addicts as a whole).

    Shakespeare instructs us, ‘To thine own self, be true’. Myself. Not you. I recognize that you are allowed to be as anti-gay marriage as you want, but that doesn’t mean that I shouldn’t be allowed to marry the man or woman of my dreams, so long as they are the person I love.

    • Hang in there with the truth whyI’mconservative, this is what their activists do. They log on to other websites and desperately try to impose the immoral homosexual agenda down our throats and down the throats of our children. I thought about answering all of the falsehoods in those post but realize it was directed at you and not me. If you want my input then let me know, otherwise I will have you respond to your own reply. Your blog and website is brilliant.

    • I’m sorry I haven’t responded earlier. I have a blog, yes, but I’m honestly not on here very often. I think there is a disconnect in your response. No one is trying to pass laws making homosexuals follow a certain religion. If that were the case the debate would be at whether or not homosexuals should be allowed to live together, or have sex. Those things are not illegal, despite being considered sinful by most Christian religions. Marriage is different because it is a publicly supported, government endorsed union. You said you wouldn’t want to be forced to follow someone else’s religion. I don’t know if you support forcing photographers, caterers, government clerks, bakers, etc. to be involved in a ceremony they find immoral. Many gay rights activists claim that they don’t, and yet this is where the movement has inevitably lead. We are fighting for the freedom for Christians to follow THEIR religion, not to force homosexuals to follow our religion. No one anywhere is saying they can’t live together. I don’t care what they do, I only care when it affects me. Which it has, more and more, as it permeates the schools and government.
      You didn’t contest any of my five points, so can I assume you agree with them? My complaint in this post is about individuals being labeled anti-gay, hateful, bigoted, etc. because they follow their religion. I point out, I think rather succinctly, that the actions they are taking are motivated by love, not hate. They are not trying to force anyone to do anything, they just want to share their opinions that the choices homosexuals are making are going to lead them to misery, not happiness. And they are inevitably labeled as hateful and homophobic when they do so. This is an obvious falsehood that limits the ability for us to discuss the real issues people have with changing the legal definition of marriage.
      Your concerns about improving the situation of the homosexuals are addressed here:

  9. So if you’re so “pro freedom” why isn’t someone’s freedom to marry who they choose among them without shame or fear of discrimination? Why isn’t the freedom for a woman to make medical decisions about her own body included?

    My two biggest arguments against conservatives being “pro freedom” is that it doesn’t jive with the rhetoric. You’re either pro-freedom or you aren’t. You’re either pro-choice or you’re anti-choice.

    I commented this on another post earlier, but think it fits better here.

    If you are for taking away someone’s choice to live life (or not) as they chose, you’re for taking away freedom, pure and simple. There is no gray area here.

    You’re either for freedom or against it.

    • Don’t you think it’s ironic that you say, “if you’re for taking away someone’s right to live life (or not)…you’re taking away freedom, pure and simple.” But you’re pro abortion? I think it is ironic.

      • In response to Jesse who twisted the facts as usual. Actually anyone can and does have the freedom to marry whomever and whatever they choose as there is no law against illegal marriage. Go marry your cactus plant if you want to, the government is not going to arrest you for illegal marriage and put you in jail.

        We are talking about the public recognition of marriage here. It is that state certificate and piece of paper they are after. So if it involves public recognition of marriage with taxpayer funded benefits then by all means we can restrict that freedom to only those relationships that benefit us all in society.
        We are talking about the public policy and public meaning of marriage here. It is based on one man and one woman because it is the only union that benefits us all with offspring. The state in involved due to procreation. This is why the public recognition of marriage is restricted to one man and one woman only.

        Actually no one in America has the freedom to now define marriage and the public purpose of it and the bestowing of taxpayer funded benefits to it. We the people do that. He like the other homos demands a freedom that no other American has.

    • The conservative argument here about freedom does jive and matches our beliefs. AS OF RIGHT NOW NO AMERICAN HAS THE FREEDOM TO NOW DICTATE TO THE REST OF THE COUNTRY THE LAWS, RULES, AND PUBLIC POLICY OF MARRIAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      No group now has the freedom to now decide the state and public recognition of marriage and the dispensing of taxpayer benefits. We the people as a whole decides this and not a human minority group of people who define themselves by their sodomy.

      Our views here on freedom are simple. Whatever freedom we have it applies equally to all. If no one else has the freedom to marry whatever and whomever they want and get public recognition of it with taxpayer funded benefits, then neither should homosexuals.

      By the way no one here is taking away the homosexuals choice of living as they are as no homosexuals are being jailed and having their relationships be declared illegal. Just because your union is not recognized as marriage does not mean, that we are taking away how you live.

  10. The problem is that you can’t start your argument with, essentially, “Let’s assume that I’m completely right.” That’s what you’ve done here. You’ve taken your precepts of belief and decided they are right without even examining how they affect people in the real world.

    You have assumed that gay people are unhappy, but you haven’t looked to see that many gay people live very happy lives, have loving, successful relationships. You have assumed that gay people will be happier if they change, but you’ve never examined the outcome of attempts to force them to change to see that it actually makes them less mentally healthy and more miserable.

    Let’s look at this argument another way. Suppose I make this argument: Let us agree that the following points are true:

    1. Atheists believe that there is no god.

    2. Atheists believe that organized religion is a conjob used to manipulate people for the benefit of some at the expense of others.

    3. Atheists believe that religion has caused division and strife between peoples and retarded both social and technological progress.

    4. Atheists believe that religious leaders use fear (of damnation) and bribery (e.g. heaven) as methods to gain adherents and power.

    5. Atheists believe that more people are better able to find happiness when freed from the oppressive regimes of organized religion.

    Now, as you said, it doesn’t matter if atheists are right about these things. If we agree that they are true statements, then an atheist who assumes these things is perfectly justified and is expressing the same form of love as you are when they try to take action to teach children that there is no god, when they ban any form of religion in the public square and try to chase religions out of our communities. They are merely trying to free you from brainwashing, according to their beliefs.

    And thus you see, the problem isn’t your sentiment of “love,” it’s your basic lack of respect for my freedom and individuality and your lack of humility in assuming you are absolute correct and there is no chance that you might be wrong.

    • I don’t start my argument with “Let’s assume I’m right,” just, “Let’s agree this is what Christians believe, the absolute ‘rightness’ is irrelevant.” And I think it can be assumed that I do think I’m right. If I didn’t think I was right, that wouldn’t be my opinion. I also assume you think you’re right, because that’s the way the beliefs work. The blog is called, “Why I’m Conservative,” and my conclusions are all based on my experiences, which have shaped the things I believe to be right. It seems a little redundant to say, “You actually think the things you believe are true.”
      I have examined how my beliefs effect people in the real world. I believe that anyone should be able to deny service to anyone for any reason. And, yes, I mean that. I think that if someone is denied service they should get over it. Yes, I mean that, too. There is no industry in which anyone, gay, black, man, woman, illegal immigrant, is shut out from obtaining service. So if some random restaurant or t-shirt shop doesn’t want to serve someone because they’re gay/mormon/ugly/black/too old/too young, that random business should be able to do as they please. And if it bothers enough people, they’ll lose business and close. The government should have nothing to do with it. At all.
      You seem to think that not wanting to be involved in specific ceremonies or events is akin to trying to force homosexuals into therapy or break up their relationships. You have no evidence of this, because it hasn’t happened. No one is trying to force homosexuals to do anything. In the privacy of their lives and their homes they can do whatever they please. It used to be illegal, but that was before I was born, so I don’t really concern myself with it. It was also legal to assassinate Mormons in Missouri for a long time. But I imagine you’re not losing any sleep over that. I also still don’t understand the obsession with marriage. I’ve explained in detail in other posts, but I’ll try to summarize here; to most Christians, marriage means something. It means moving in together, sharing a life and home and family, becoming one. When my husband and I married it wasn’t for equal treatment or tax benefits or inheritance. It was because we wanted to have a life together. If we couldn’t have gotten married here, we would have moved somewhere we could, without question or hesitation. We didn’t have sex until we were married. We were separate, we got married, and we combined into one unit. Homosexuals, on the other hand, if they are in a committed relationship, are already doing all those things. They are living together, perhaps adopting, sharing a bank account and a home loan. They’re doing everything already that marriage means to Christians. But they also want the legal benefits, which are, inevitably, at the expense of others. So it is, literally, a ‘right’ that is intended to force the way others act, and nothing to do with the individual choices of two people. If it was only about two people, then the fight was over when homosexual behavior was no longer illegal.
      The topic is homosexual marriage, because that is the driving force in society right now; homosexuals are suing, and winning, and destroying businesses all over the place because they can. But these statements are true in all circumstances. I think that sex outside of marriage is wrong. I don’t want to make it illegal. But I also won’t be going to anyone’s “I lost my virginity” parties, or catering them, or making t-shirts for them. And I should be allowed to do that, right? If a friend came to me and said, “Cater my divorce party,” shouldn’t I be allowed to say, “I’d rather not support that. And are you sure this is right? Have you tried marriage counseling?” That’s not hate. I think a lot of things are sinful, and I haven’t ever tried to make any of them illegal. I try to protect people’s rights to say they think those things are wrong, and to act in consistency with those beliefs.
      That’s the point. We want to be allowed to live in consistency with the listed beliefs. I think there is plenty of room to coexist, but the left has displayed less than zero tolerance for anyone who disagrees with gay marriage. I don’t think that hurt feelings are worth destroying a business over. There is nothing else going on. Gay people aren’t being murdered or jailed. They aren’t getting kicked out of their homes. They aren’t being fired. They’re just being turned away from certain businesses under very specific circumstances. If you truly believe tolerance is a virtue, then tolerate those to subscribe to Christian beliefs.

      • Let us start with your second paragraph, the one dealing with denying service to someone. They are not being denied service because they are homosexuals, they are being denied service because we want nothing to do with sodomy and homosexual behavior which is evil, immoral, perverted, deviant and downright detestable. We serve the person and not the human conduct. Who determines the code of conduct and terms of business on your private property, you or the government? The homos have spoken and demand acceptance and approval of their sexual perversion on your property.
        So let us say you are a wedding catering company whether it be in cakes, resorts, photography or in printing. You know that marriage is the union of one man and one woman. You will sell flowers, cakes, and do photography to one who is homosexual but not accommodate their behavior. Public accommodation laws never meant that you must now accommodate immoral human behavior. Thus your terms of business and code of conduct in doing business is you cater to one man and one woman marriages only. If you want the service then abide by the terms of business and code of conduct.
        So this is really the problem here. The immoral sodomites are demanding that you violate your freedom of religion and freedom of speech and accommodate human action and speech that you oppose. Forcing one to accommodate this is a violation of our Constitutional freedoms and liberties of freedom of speech and religion. Ironically homosexual owned bakeries cannot refuse service to anti homosexuals as the service violates their freedom of speech. We simply want the same freedoms.

        Elsewhere you mentioned you do not understand their obsession with marriage. I do. It is not the benefits or the government goodies. It is forcing society to not just tolerate homosexuality but to force it to approve and accept the perversion. Remember marriage is not just tolerated in America it is promoted and held in high esteem. Thus linking marriage to homosexuality now makes it held in high esteem, promoted, and approved as normal. You forced society to not just tolerate your deviancy but forced it to now approve, endorse, and accept the perversion as good and no longer evil. ” We can get married now is the mantra and there is nothing wrong with marriage.” So how can homosexuality be immoral, perverted, and unhealthy if we can get married. By stealing and hijacking marriage, you have now made evil being good and immoral now being moral.

        Another reason for stealing and hijacking marriage is now gaining access to our children in the public school systems. They do not reproduce so they depend on conversion and recruitment into the perversion. Children are vulnerable and can be recruited if one has access to them in the public schools. Want someone’s child without parental consent and where the child’s parents cannot stop you, then get access to our children through the public school system. Parental opt out is not allowed her


    • Actually it is you showing lack of respect for our freedoms.

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